A Conversation with tarotplane

Kosmische influence in America and the art of resisting labels

tarotplane occupies a strange and beautiful corner of modern psychedelic sound where kosmische and exploratory guitar blur into something hard to categorize. PJ’s music is filled with post-punk ghosts, early electronic futurism, krautrock hypnosis, and cassette-era experimentation, folding into a sound that’s unmistakably his.

With a new album on the horizon, tarotplane continues to push against tidy labels while chasing the same goal that’s always driven his work: music as movement, atmosphere, and inner travel.

Third Eye contributor A.J. Kaufmann caught up with PJ of tarotplane to talk about kosmische influence in America, formative listening, deep krautrock cuts, techno crossovers, and what “psychedelic” really means when you strip away the clichés.

---

A.J. Kaufmann: Hi, Pj, how are you? What’s new in your world?

PJ: Heya. I’m hanging in. Life is kinda rocky here in the States at present. Very cold and getting very repressive. Making as much music as I can to keep busy.

A.J.: Can you tell me more about your new album and the Kosmische Musik influence, which I think is still rare among American artists?

PJ: Well, I suppose most music that comes out of me has the influence one way or the other. This new one should be out sometime in April, is on a new Scottish label. It’s the first album I ever made on a 4-track cassette machine, and I am really enjoying that. I suppose the Kosmische thing is somewhat rare among American artists. My theory is that Americans hate the idea of pretension.

I have seen that artists like Bill Orcutt and even Tom Verlaine are praised because they don’t use effects in their music. That somehow it’s more honest and it makes it more valued. For me, I love pretense. I love effects. I grew up loving bands that used them and I have never felt that using them was somehow a crutch. That’s not to say I don’t love people like Tom Verlaine, but I don’t see it as something to aspire to. The psychedelic scene in broad terms has always embraced effects as a key part of its sound and I suppose that the thing that links me to it.

A.J.: Have you been making that characteristic tarotplane music ever since you remember, or have there been various evolutions of your sound? What was your very first work, and what was it like?

PJ: Sorta…I grew up loving Pink Floyd from a very early age, so a lot of my musical heritage comes from that. When I first picked up the guitar, I was really super into the post-punk scene. Especially the bands on 4ad. That was what I really wanted for myself (and in a way I still do). In the early 90’s I got really into bands like Seefeel and Disco Inferno. It’s kinda complicated but I got really frustrated with music in the early 90s and I put my guitar down for probably 12 years and I didn’t touch it. When I emerged from hibernation, the sound that came out was very indented to the Kosmische sound. I had been listening to that since I was in my early teens but it really emerged at the forefront of my playing/thinking.

A.J.: What are some of the “classic” artists you admire and would recommend?

PJ: I mean nowadays everyone seems to know everything about music so none of these bands are particularly underground, but my “classic bands” are Pink Floyd, Amon Duul 2, Popol Vuh, Ash Ra, Throbbing Gristle, Bourbonese Qualk, 23 Skidoo, Fairport Convention, Seefeel, Cocteau Twins, Moonshake, Dead Can Dance, Comus, Trees, Dif Juz, Simple Minds, Joy Division, Boards Of Canada.

A.J.: What are some of the deep krautrock cuts you think we should be listening to?

PJ: Early Deuter, Mammut, The German version of Gommorah’s “Trauma”, The Sand album, Yatha Sidhra and even though they are Swedish rather than German, the Anna själv tredje album for me is one of the true heavyweights and its never been reissued.

A.J.: Any new artists you’d recommend?

PJ: IE from Minnesota. I love them. Troth from Australia, Esse Pi Enne, Brannten Schnüre , Thorn Wych, Pefkin, Milan W. , Thomas Bush, A Happy Return, Dean Blunt.

A.J.: Apart from your own music, you also do mixes of various sounds, eras, and atmospheres. Tell me about zikzak.

PJ: Well, I have always loved sharing music. I worked in a recording studio store for years and I really missed letting people know about the things I found interesting. I am somewhat genre-obsessed, so I thought it might be a cool idea to do mixes and then a blog that sort of highlights the music I enjoy. I’m kinda running out of stuff that I know enough about that I would release. I would love to do a post-punk one, but I worry that I might get sued or something (even though I don’t charge for them). I also love making mixes but recently I have been focusing more on my own music, so I have let that go by the wayside a bit.

A.J.: What about techno and electronic music, which I think shape your sound just as much as Kosmische? When did you first start listening to electronic music, and what were your first discoveries?

PJ: Oh yeah. For sure. This may sound odd but after say 1992 or so, I found that modern “rock” music wasn’t doing it for me anymore. The post punk sound was changing in a way that I didn’t care for and things were becoming more stripped down and direct. I used to read the NME and Melody Maker cover to cover and I kept hearing about this dude Aphex Twin. I went to my friends’ recording shop and they specialized in both techno and industrial music. Very ahead of its time in the US, that I can tell you…anyway, I picked up the Didgeridoo 12” and it knocked me out. I thought, that’s it, that’s the future.

I then got the Orb’s first album, Amorphous Androgynous, all the Artificial intelligence stuff, and I was off. I pretty much stopped listening to rock music at all from that point on until somewhat recently. One of my goals is to integrate guitar into electronic music and that’s a big part of what I do. My album on 12th Isle “Horizontology” had those aspects for one side, as well as the Ektachrome Dawn album on Tonight’s Dream. I have recently released a collaboration album with a Norther Irish musician named John Haughey called “Errata” on the Woodford Halse label and that really showcases that sound.

A.J.: What would you recommend from the modern techno/electronic scene?

PJ: Wow. So much good stuff is out there. MPU101, Civilistjavel , Other Joe, Most everything on Balmat, Leif, Anthony Naples, Actress, the Wah Wah Wino label, Huerco S. …One thing I should say is the “electronic music” is so broad that almost everything that I like that’s contemporary fits into it. There are so many variations that it’s really tough and maybe not even helpful to pin down. Stuff like Astrid Sonne, M.L. Buch, Jabu, Golden Ivy, Slow Attack Ensemble…it’s not “techno” but it doesn’t need to be

A.J.: I also find that neopsych vibe in your work. Have you been making “strictly” psychedelic music as well?

PJ: Well, if I have, it wasn’t intentional. Sometimes I make music that is 100% totally derivative of earlier music. I don’t like doing that too much. Honestly, I don’t even like to be part of a Kosmische”, “Krautrock” or psychedelic label per se because you get pigeonholed. It’s just how music is now. No one notices you unless you kinda push a vibe/label. That being said, I never ever get invited to “psych” festivals or anything like that. I am in a happy place I suppose where I’m not traditionally psych for psych people and Im traditionally a psychy, blues derived guitar player so a lot of electronic labels stay away.

My guitar playing is important to me and im always trying to push what the guitar can do now in 2026. It can be tough to find a label but I do feel like I am doing something that isn’t easy to pin down and that matters to me. I don’t make subprojects for different sounds because to me the diversity sonically is what Tarotplane music is about. I dont know much about the current “psych” scene. Most of what I hear is just heavy rock/biker/stoner stuff vibe. Not bad, just not of interest to me personally. I also find that limiting in terms of what the music can be and what is focused on. I think Throbbing Gristle or Boards Of Canada are as psychedelic or more than a truckload of Kikagaku Moyo’s or King Gizzards.

A.J.: Everything can be psychedelic. I always ask all artists I interview for The Third Eye for their definition of “psychedelic”. What’s yours?

PJ: Mine might be simple-minded, but music that helps you travel without moving. It doesn’t have to do with having fuzz guitars, was was peddles or any of that. It’s music that transports you. That can be a lot of music. That being said the narrow definition of psychedelic is not what I’m about.

A.J.: Thank you so much for chatting with The Third Eye and hope to talk again soon!

PJ: My absolute pleasure. Thanks for asking!

Check out tarotplane on Bandcamp.

This interview was conducted by A.J. Kaufmann, a poet and musician from Poznań, Poland. His work spans psychedelic folk, experimental rock, and kraut-influenced songwriting. Albums like Stoned Gypsy Wanderer, Second Hand Man, and TN-237m chart a restless, exploratory sound shaped by underground traditions and European counterculture.

You can find A.J. Kaufmann’s music on Bandcamp here, and you can also check out his other writings on his blog here.